Tuition Assistance To Illegal Immigrants
81Where some tax money goes
As anyone who has looked at the University of California (UC) system of the California State University (CSU) system knows, in-state tuition is granted based on whether or not you attended three years of high school and graduated from high school in California.
There is no requirement to prove that you are a legal resident.
This means that illegal immigrants can obtain in-state tuition for the UC and CSU campuses, provided they meet the high school graduation requirement.
UC and CSU systems are subsidized by the State. Your tax money goes to pay for the subsidies, and some of the money subsidizes tuition for illegal immigrants.
Now, I tend to believe that if you are illegal you shouldn't have access to ANY benefits. This includes education. I believe that by allowing access to education, health care, and welfare programs, California is actually creating a situation that is attractive to illegal immigrants.
I definitely don't like the idea that illegals are attending college at in-state prices.
The argument is that illegals, who are brought here as children, have no choice in the matter. They should be given the same opportunities as other children. However, if this is true, then there are no consequences to bringing your children here, rather, there are incentives to bring your children to the US with you - illegally. There should always be consequences for illegal action. There is an old quote, "Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law." That applies here.
However, California is offering incentives. These are people who go to college - and take spots at college that should go to legal residents - and pay less for the privilege. These are people who lament, at graduation time, that they cannot get a job that puts their degree to good use because they are illegal. Then what are they doing getting that degree here?
At the same time, California makes out-of-state, legal residents pay more. Sometimes it is almost double the cost of in-state tuition.
Some out-of-state students have challenged that California is breaking federal law by granting in-state tuition to illegal immigrants. This is because illegals in California cannot be legal residents, and cannot gain access to perks for legal residents. Illegal immigrants are already barred from accessing federal and state grant and loan programs for tuition assistance.
Many illegal immigrants say that they will not be able to attend college if forced to pay the higher prices. They say that their illegal status makes it close to impossible to afford higher tuition prices. The solution to this is to enter the country legally, not illegally.
Out-of-state students say that the state should either charge everyone the same, or illegals cannot receive in-state tuition.
California says that the residency requirement doesn't require actual residence in the state of California. However, when you are talking about high school attendance, children tend to reside with their parents, and that may not be in the state where they end up going to college. Residency and high school attendance are tied when you discuss teenagers.
The case is will be going to court, and the arguments will be heard. I hope that the out-of-state students prevail.
To read the article, please click here.
- AB 540 Film
This is an article about a child who is an "AB 540" - or undocumented student in California's colleges. - Opinion on Providing Education to Illegals
This is an opinion - from a Sacramento reporter - on the consequences of the court's actions. As I was unable to find ANY article in California that was backing my point of view, I had to deal with the opposite point of view.
The DREAM Act
The DREAM Act is proposed federal legislation that would allow an illegal immigrant who (1) graduates from college or (2) serves in the military to become a citizen of the US.
Now, I don't have a problem with the military service requirement. Serving in a country's imiltary has long been a path to citizenship. This was the case for most European countries for the past century. I don't object to this idea. The basic concept is - prove that you want to be here by serving the country, and then we will let you be a citizen. It is an entry requirement. I think it is fine - in fact - considering the depleted state of the military today, I think its a great alternative.
But graduating from college in the US as a prerequisite to citizenship proves nothing. It doesn't show that the person wants to be here, it shows that the person wants an education. Additionally, while the illegal is in college, they are taking seats away from legal citizens who should be in college. For every seat an illegal takes in a college, it is one less that a citizen can have. If education is a priority in the country, and it should be, then let's educate our citizens first. When we have a populace that graduates from high school and can actually do math and reading, then we can worry about whether we can provide education to illegals. By providing them with college opportunities we are incentivizing their decision to stay in the US.
California has its own version of the DREAM act - it is currently (9/2008) on the Governor's desk waiting to be signed or vetoed. If he doesn't veto it, it passes. However, a state cannot make requirements to citizenship, as that is a federal decision. So what, exactly, this act would do is unclear.
Updates To The Situation
There are several articles running in newspapers right now about the effects of this lawsuit on illegals. Many postulate that if the lawsuit wins, and illegals are forced to pay out-of-state tuition, it will send the illegals underground.
Here's the thing - they are underground. They cannot get a job with their degree. They cannot work for major companies, and don't contribute to society.
I agree - it stinks that their parents brought them here and they didn't have a choice. But if they graduated from a CA high school - as they must have to recieve in-state tuition - then they know the history and laws of our country. They know that many, many people in the past have been turned away from immigrating to this country. They know that as illegals they have no rights to be here.
The claim is that these kids are as "American" as the next kid. But the truth of the matter is that they are not. They are not legal citizens. In fact, they aren't American at all.
If these kids had any respect for the laws of our land, they would leave and come here legally. By trying to get advantages because they were brought here by their parents, they are not respecting our laws. They want to be American - but they don't want to obey the laws of America.
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nuwunderlich never said anything about race in her article. I think that the people who called her such names are in fact racist themselves, for assuming that a white person who disagrees with illegal immigration is racist.
You say that those kids who were brought here when they were 2-10 years old should now be old enough and understand that they are breaking the law, but this is where they grew up. United States is there home, this is their culture. How would you feel if they just told you to go off to another country just because you weren't born here and your parents brought you? You would be lost in that other country, everything you have learned and all your culture would be this one. And you say that they are taking up seats in CSU and UC? They don't magically make it there, they go through the same process EVERYONE goes through for admission. So why deny them their rightful place just because they don't have legal documents? I always see people, who probably are legal, standing outside the freeway asking for money when they about 20. Isn't better that someone who isn't legal strives for education instead of being lazy and asking for money like that? Plus to be allowed to study in CSU and UC they have to sign an agreement promising to make everything they can to get legalized. And about taxes, if students get legalized then they will soon start paying taxes as well. Oh and by the way get your facts straight, last time I checked USA isn't the only country in AMERICA, I bet those kids are as "American" as you are.Just to finish this let me give you a quote by a very honorable man who once said, “All of us do not have equal talent, but all of us should have an equal opportunity to develop our talent.” -John F. Kennedy
Have a nice day.
Fat Bastard!!!
i believe illegal aliens should be allowed to further their horizons by obtaining a higher education. its not a crime to want to become educated, yeah so what if they came here illegaly this country was founded based on the beleifs of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness every human being should be alllowed that. wanting to lead a better life by coming to this country shouldnt be a crime, and if an illegal alien takes your place in college then he earned it. i think people like you should stop being avaracious individuals and think about others.
the united states is a great country without a doubt but people are greedy and cold-hearted. stop thinking about yourselfs and give someone else an opportunity to better themselves you have ur chance for a better education why cant they? all they want to do is lead a regular life and be happy if you deny someone that you re denying them a basic HUMAN right.
don't worry about what theses idiots are saying. you are 100% right. Every poll ever conducted on the subject will tell you that majority rules, and the majority of the country thinks just the same as you and I.
ur selfish bitch the illigal students that get to college is cuz they earn it.....don't be jealous that they are smart and ur not:)
Please do hold on for a second. I need to check my documents.......oh, there they are. American passport, certificate of naturalization, tax documents, voter registration, driver's licence, student loans, debt, credit card debt. They are all there, I am a naturalized American citizen that watched her parents give up a lot so that they can come here LEGALLY. Yes people, I remember that day vividly, we had to get in line, apply for a visa, finger printing, background checks, medical history checks, financial questions. College was mandatory and we got some scholarship money(we could not get some scholarships because we were LEGAL RESIDENTS not yet CITIZENS, we became citizens last year), financial aid we got, now we have to pay back as well as private loans with interest will have to be paid, we are still threatened with unemployment. Yes, all this we worked for, we got the good and the bad.
AND NOW FOR SOME GOD FORSAKEN REASON, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BE IT 2 YEARS OLD OR 200 WANT THE CHANCE TO ATTEND COLLEGE AND GET THE BENEFITS JUST LIKE THAT?! I DID NOT GET A BREAK, I AM A NATURALIZED CITIZEN! I NEVER BROKE A LAW IN MY LIFE! NEVER CHEATED, NEVER STOLE, NEVER STOLE ANYBODY'S IDENTITY! YET I AM TO PAY FOR THEIR SITUATION IN LIFE?!
Call my rant extreme but I consider illegal immigrants who did not have the foresight to documet themselves properly as irresponsible, selfish and heartless individuals.
those same sex trades are run by some americans, who you think is the biggest market when it comes to tourist kiddie sex....Americans, they go overseas to have sex with kids in poor countries. There won't be a market for human trafficking in this country if these " horrible people ". didn't know there was money to be made.....
Now it's easy for you to talk about the laws, and respecting it. But as humans, our God given common sense and emotions, we find a moral compass inside. My compass is my Bible and my God, who teaches me to love, yes the bible does say respect the laws of the Land....but Jesus himself broke the law healing someone on the sabbath day.
The only legal people of this land are the indians, if your family have proof of citizenship from the indians then yes...but it was not so....therefore you're also an immigrants legal by who's laws.....not the original/lawful people
I do understand where you're coming from, but you can not be that inhumane and make those kind of statements about kids who came here.
At least they are not raping our kids, and burning our villages to take over....all they want is an education....read your history...you have no rights here, I have indian in me but I'll still call myself an immigrant.
We're all illegal immigrants, this land is not my land, this land is not your land, we can start as many wars as we like, build our armies the legal rights will always be to the indians....
Thats the truth..I'm sorry to tell you.
I don't have anything against people of other races. Growing up, and now, some of my best friends are non-white. And by the way - I come from a family of LEGAL immigrants. I have nothing against immigrants. I live in California where, right now, white is the minority. We no longer hold a majority. We are a plurality - we are the biggest group, but we are not a majority.
I don't hate anyone, and I am not a racist. In fact, I am very tolerant - so long as you are following the law. Following the law means all laws - not just the laws you choose. Immigration restrictions might be "inconvienent" or "outdated" but they are still the laws of America. The first way to start respecting America as a country is to respect the laws of America.
You don't want illegal immigration any more than I do. Illegal immigration causes many hurts, indentured servants, plays a huge part in the sex and drug trades, and is run by horrible people who don't respect human life. Maybe instead of championing illegal immigration, you should look at what else can be done to improve the lives of others.
I agree with you. I think that most of the folks here that disagree are afraid of losing some benefits. We need to remove the incentives for people to break immigration laws and this is a start.
I READ YOUR COMMENTS AND FRANKLY THEY STEM FROM HATE AND RACISM BUT PERHAPS THAT'S THE WAY YOU WERE RAISED. I FEEL THAT WE LIVE IN AN INCREDIBLE COUNTRY AND SOMETIMES WE DON'T REALIZE HOW BLESSED WE ARE B...BUT AMERICA IS NOT ONLY WHITE, WASP...ECT IT IS A NATION OF DIVERSITY..AND I WONDER HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT A BLACK PRESIDENT? SHOULD HE GO BACK TO AFRICA?? WELL WE WERE ALLLLLLL ILLEGAL AT SOME POINT AND THE IRISH WERE THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL AND SO WERE THE ITALIANS..ECT.. SO NOW IT'S THE MEXICAN. I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA ND THE WHITES WOULD NEVER DO THE JOBS THESE PEOPLE DO..MANY ARE LOOSERS BUT A GREAT MAJORITY ARE HARD WORKING PEOPLE..AND IF THEY CAN EDUCATE THEIR CHILDREN...WELLLL FANTASCTIC.. GETTING AN EDUCATION CHANGES A LIFE , DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WOULD GO BACK TO MEXICO OR ANY OTHER LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRY AFTER ACHIEVING A DEGREE..THESE PEOPLE WILL ADD TO THE BETTERMENT OF THE4 COMMUNITY..
I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST YOU LOOK INTO HOW MANY LATINOS ARE IN POLITICS AND LET ME TELL YOU THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING..SO PUT ON YOUR SEAT BELT AND MAYBE YOU COULD GO TO AN ALL WHITE COUNTRY...BUT THEY WOULD ROAST YOU BECASUE MOST OF THEM HATE AMERICAN'S ....I LOVE IT HERE AND I HAVE A MASTERS!!!I AM AN HISPANIC-AMERICAN OR LATINA AMERICANA..
if you look at the history aren't you guys also the ppl who came across this land from england and take over the indian's land? what mouse do you have to say such things about illegal shouldn't have chance to study or shouldn't be here? are't you guys black mailed the maxico to take over the california and made all maxican suffered and made them illegal? what about the ppl who came here as legal status and became illegal? to Indians, well, native americans, you guys are the illegal ailen think about it and think beofore you speak.
your such an ignorant bitch. consider things from a different point of view.
I am an immigrant from Germany. I came here legally and am currently attending college. I was a year old when my parents came to the United States. That was not my choice. America is the ONLY place I know and understand. If my parents came here illegally, you suggest that I should go back to Germany where I know nothing of and cannot even communicate because 25 years ago my parents decided to come here? You are just parochial. Get out of your town and walk in someone elses shoes. Myself as someone who went through the tiresome process of being naturalized and took all the legal routes can still sympathize with those kids.
I think you are a bitter person full of hate, why don't you live your life and let other live their own,,WHAT have you done for this country besides possting racist comments ,,,TELL ME what have you done to talk so patriotic
comments that so full of hate, look 50 years ago blacks were segregated and look now your president is a black that shows you where the white race is going, what happens is that americans like you fear what other races are becoming
I think you need to get a life ,,,not everyone whas fortunate to be born in this country like you,,,,,,,,,,,instead of making this comments why don't you do something to help young americans go to college instead of waiting most of them for the government to settled their lifes
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. There has to be some level of responsibility of parents. Those children, when they are 2, 3, 4 or 10 do break the law. And 2, 3, 4, and 10 year olds don't go to college. 17-18 year olds do. By that time they know that they are here illegally and are breaking the law. This isn't hatred. This is simply they are breaking the law and are being rewarded for it with places in college. I am not being bigoted. I am saying that these kids - they are adults now - are breaking the law.
You mention that drugs and felonies are choices. Well, so is staying in the US when you know you are illegal. It should be punished much harsher than it is. These adults who stay here (or come here) illegally are not respecting the laws of the country they say they want to be part of. I am not saying all immigrants shouldn't be able to go to college. I am saying illegal immigrants shouldn't be able to go to college. If you are not here legally, the options available to you should be restricted - meaning no college.
I am not saying the 2 year old should be sent back without his parents, but his parents should be sent back. The 17-18 year old who is going to college should know that they cannot stay here. If they are getting the discount rate in CA they graduated from a CA high school - which means they took civics and know the basic laws of the country.....and that they are breaking them.
What a great achievement breaking the law is. Let's reward people for that.
I think not.
You say who are breaking the law, the US law, how can a child know which law he is breaking?? How can a child at the age of 2 or 3 or 4 or even 10 know that by immigrating he is breaking the law, don't be foolish if your convicted of a felony or drug possesion that was your own choice, a child who has EARNED the right to attend college, because they are not handing out free passes to ANYBODY you have to graduate from HS, thousands of students drop out each year, so for an IMMIGRANT that is a feat alone and if he has the knowledge and the will to further expand his education "BREAKING the Law" should not be an excuse bigots like you get to use on a hardworking individual, It's not a free ride, it's just a discounted rate.
You speak of taxes, please do not even start, if you only knew how much money of Unclaimed taxes the US keeps because millions of immigrants do not get it back in April, look past the hatred that you hold in your eyes, and do not accuse a child of breaking the law. "If you were to go into a RESTRICTED ZONE, while you have you baby in your arms, was he breaking the law too"????
You know, I don't mind being called stupid, or moron, but you have to tell me why you think that. If you are upset about my views, then you have to have a reason. Simply calling names does nothing to encourage debate or assist in any way the debate.
I don't think I am stupid. In a country where following laws is important, illegal immigrants aren't following laws and shouldn't get the benefits that law abiding citizens get. If you are convicted of a felony, or drug possession, in CA - you cannot get tuition assistance. But we are giving it to other people who are breaking the law but haven't been caught yet? That doesn't make any sense, and isn't fair to those who work hard and abide by the law.
you are a stupid moron
"This is one sticky subject but be careful!"
"When comes to college tution the gates of the federal government are very tight this Xmas Season!"
"Nice topic!"
CEO ESAHS Association
karaband 5 weeks ago
It is so sad that MOST Americans are so consumed with what they HEAR and not what IS, that we miss actual information.
@nwunderlich I see where you are coming from, but your information is such a simplified argument that is based on what you hear on the so called ‘news’ regarding what actually is. So,
First thing, you stated: Your tax money goes to pay for the subsidies, and some of the money subsidizes tuition for illegal immigrants.
In the U.S. there are over 12million REGISTERED illegal resident taxpayers who pay over 50billion a year into Soc.Sec. and Medicare Taxes. Which they will NEVER see or touch. So when we talk about OUR tax dollars, are we talking about OUR as in legal and illegal tax dollars collected? This is only the registered taxpayers this doesn't include those who will not register out of fear. Illegal resident pay property tax as well (which in most localities funds the colleges).
Next item: There should always be consequences for illegal action. There is an old quote, "Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law." That applies here.
If you ask any 18yrs old what is their Social Security number what percentage knows? Only those who are in the military because that is their ID or those who are on their own... but VERY few know. Point being at 18 they ususally don't even know what a SocSec card looks like. So when a child has an ITIN which looks like a SocSec card, how do they know the difference? At what point does an 18 year old wake up and say "you know today I am going to research my legal status in the US???" If all you know is the United States, your culture is American, how exactly do you know you are illegal???
So, HOW EXACTLY DO YOU KNOW YOU ARE ILLEGAL WHEN YOU DON"T KNOW YOU ARE ILLEGAL??? Most kids who find out they are illegal is when they apply for college and they are told they are illegal and to add an additional smack in the head… because they have gone past 18.5yr of age. Now if they can be sponsored and do apply they have to leave the country and are barred for 3-10yrs. How do you like them apples?
Our government keeps illegal immigrants illegal because it is a HUGE influx of dollars that do not need to be reported to the American population. To provide these kids with the opportunity to correct their status would mean they would lose out on BILLIONS of un allocated dollars every year. So they let the American population believe that they are stripping us of our tax dollars by funding their Medicaid, food stamps of housing bills, when in fact they’ve paid into it and are using about 20% of their own funds.
Knowledge is Power.